How to Drink Woodford Reserve with Elizabeth McCall, Master Distiller

For someone who is passionate about horses and bourbon there is one position that would be a dream to have and our guest has got it!  

When you think of horse races, there is only one: the Kentucky Derby.  When you think of cocktails at horse races, there is only one – the Mint Julep. And what bourbon do you find in that Kentucky Derby Mint Julep? Woodford Reserve. 

As Vice President and Master Distiller of Woodford Reserve Bourbon, Elizabeth McCall calls the shots when defining the quality sensory standard to which every batch of Woodford Reserve must comply. What does it take to become the third Master Distiller ever at Woodford and one of the youngest distillers in the United States, I will let her tell you!

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Cocktail of the Week: Woodford Reserve Old Fashioned

Please enjoy this transcript of my interview with Elizabeth. Just remember that I own the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Lush Life podcast, with all rights reserved, as well as my right of publicity. So if you want to use any of this, please email me!

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Susan: Well, it’s so great to have you here. Thank you for being on the show.

Elizabeth: Thank you for having me, Susan. I’m excited.

Susan: Oh, great. I’ve already introduced you in the intro, but why don’t you tell people who you are and what you do, and we’ll get right into it.

Elizabeth: Okay. Well, hi everybody. I’m Elizabeth McCall. I’m the Master Distiller for Woodford Reserve. It’s a pleasure to talk with you all and talk with you, Susan, and let’s get into things.

Susan: Now we always go backwards on Lush Life. I like to know how people got where they did. So, if you don’t mind, could you tell me a little about where you grew up and, what you studied and your family, what they did?

Elizabeth: I was born in Cincinnati, Ohio. Cincinnati has a very warm place in my heart. For those of you who don’t know, I’m now in Louisville, Kentucky right now. It’s only about an hour and a half, two hours from here, not far. But it is a special place and that’s where I did all my young childhood years and then we moved down to Kentucky when I was in middle school.

Then I grew up here and I haven’t left the state of Kentucky since. I mean traveled, but I’ve never lived anyplace else, and I went to undergrad at the University of Louisville, and then I got my graduate Master’s degree at the University of Louisville. Both degrees were in psychology. I was fixing to be a therapist, and things took a very different turn.

I heard about an opportunity to work at Brown Forman in the spirits industry using my psychology degree. After doing some practicum and internships, getting my feet wet in the therapy world, working in beverage alcohol just seemed a lot less stressful.

So, I took a chance at getting the job, and it was an entry level job as a sensory technician. The rest is history. I mean, that changed my life. I guess I’d be a therapist right now if I didn’t get the job at Brown Foreman.

Susan: Well, when you were studying psychology, what kind of things were you thinking?  I want to be this kind of psychologist or treat these kind of people?

Elizabeth: I think I had some experience with people who had drug addiction in my personal life.  I thought, “I think I’d be really good at working with families and helping them work through family challenges.” That was my inspiration. I just thought the study of human beings and how we operate was always really fascinating.

It still is fascinating to me. But then doing the therapy part was hard. You take that home with you, when you’re driving and you’re thinking about clients and am I going to be able to actually help this person?

A thing about therapy is that your job is to direct people and not actually fix them. It’s not my job to fix them. You just carry a lot of it. When I heard about the job, the opportunity to work in beverage alcohol and working for a company that has great benefits and a good pay because I had student loans to pay off just, so it was also that opportunity of making good money and good health care. That’s not very romantic.

Susan: No, but super important. Now, I did in doing my research on you, I heard that you also were a horseback rider.

Elizabeth: Yes.

Susan: Was this something that you had done as a child?

Elizabeth: Yes, it was something that nobody in my family was interested in horses or anything so it’s not like I grew up with that, but I watched a TV show that was set in the 1800s and they all rode horses everywhere and I thought I want to do that. I told my parents that was what I wanted to do, and they found a place in Cincinnati for me to start.

I just fell in love with it. My mom would drop me off there on a Saturday morning, and I’d spend the whole day at the barn riding horses, eat a bag lunch, groom, clean tack, whatever. I loved it, and I’ve always been a very driven person in that way, like very personally motivated, and I just loved it.

I loved working hard; I’ve done that since I was little. Saying that makes me think of when I went to a horse show, and it was over Labor Day or Memorial Day weekend, and I saw people out camping where we were doing our horse competition.

I’m like why would you go camping for your weekend and when you just have to do so much and then my friend was like Well, we’re in a horse show working really, really hard, like waking up at like 5 a.m. to go and take care of our horses and we’re working our butts off the whole weekend for our Memorial Day, and so it was just funny that I was like, yeah, I guess I don’t know how to relax.  

My husband would tell you that I’m a constant working person, but horses are amazing.

I have a daughter and a son, and my daughter is showing interest in horses now and I really hope that that sticks, so I’m trying to just nurture it, not push.

Susan: How fantastic that you ended up at the brand that makes the official Mint Julip for the Kentucky Derby. How crazy is that?

Elizabeth: I know. This is just such a dream, because I remember when I joined Brown Foreman in 2009, and I went on this orientation and went to Woodford Reserve, and you drive through some of the most iconic horse farms in Kentucky and it was like, this brand is amazing. It’s a dream.  Now I get to work on it and everything fell into place.

Susan: Yes, if you’re going to love horses, in any state, Kentucky is the state. I have been there, and the horse farms are insane. They’re just glorious. The landscape is gorgeous! I also know that your mother worked at Seagram’s.

Elizabeth: Yes.

Susan:  Do you think any of her experiences rubbed off on you in a positive way for you to enter into the business, or even in a negative way, really. What did she think, and did you think while you were entering it, of what it could be?

Elizabeth: It’s interesting because my mom would always talk about her job at Seagram’s because she had left that role by the time I was born. There wasn’t an overlap. But when I was getting my job here, she’d be like, “Oh, yeah, and I worked at Seagram.”  It didn’t influence or take away, but now when we talk about it comes out so much more because she’ll bring up like “oh, I was the only woman.”

I mean my mom worked there in the late 70s and she was the manager of a union of all men, basically, working the bottling line, and she was in quality control as well. She had a couple different roles, but always in bottling, and the reason why she left was because they didn’t have a maternity policy.  

My mom was just so overwhelmed, now we’ve got flexibility, and people are more understanding about it but back then it wasn’t a thing. So, my mom didn’t. go back to work after having my brother.  My mom’s a very strong-willed person, so I think that rubbed off on me and it wasn’t this thing like, oh, poor me, I was the only woman. She’s like, well, I just told them that this is how we’re doing it.

I think that’s what I got from my mom – that belief in me that you need to support yourself. Don’t ever be completely reliant on somebody. I mean, my parents are still married and, it’s not like she’s like this single woman, but it just was really important. That was something she always said to me. You have value. You’re a smart person.

Susan: Yes, I guess I got that as well. My mom always said never rely on anyone.  She and my dad were married for 65 years, and she didn’t really work. So, you took this job, and you said there was a psychology kind of bit to it? What was it?

Elizabeth: When you work in the sensory lab, you are reading, you’re testing human response to a stimulus and our stimulus happens to be beverage alcohol. We are in our sensory lab. We’re using human beings as our instrument to judge on quality defects, shelf-life testing, how long can something sit on a shelf before it changes in flavor profile.

We do all that testing in house at Brown Forman and that’s what I did setting up those tests and then being able to interpret the results, do the statistical analysis, all of that, because I learned all that in my psychology degree, because I had to learn experimentation using human beings, so it all fits really well.

It’s not the traditional way of thinking about psychology, but we use it. I think you use psychology, psychology is a great degree because you use psychology in interactions in the business world all the time or just in your everyday life, honestly.

Susan: Yes, I’ve interviewed a few bartenders who’ve studied neuroscience.  It is the same kind of thing.  They say, we use it all the time when we’re creating drinks and looking how people are drinking and what they’re drinking and how they’re drinking.

Elizabeth: There’s so much more to it than just what you see on the surface.

Susan: Right. Absolutely. Now, how long did it take you, I’m assuming you’re in love with the drinks industry, you’re still in the drinks industry, but how long do you think it took you to fall under its charm?

Elizabeth: It was, I would say it was a quick love affair.

Susan: Hopefully, it’s still going on.

Elizabeth: Yes, and it still going on. Especially when I entered 2009 was when bourbon was really starting to take off.  I had a lot of friends that had a lot of piqued interest in it, and so that encouraged my interest in wanting to really fully understand it.

It was learning how to appreciate it in the lab. I think within the first year or two I was hooked on this, and now with Woodford it’s such a wonderful, wonderful relationship that I have.  I’m very protective of the brand and it’s a weird way to think about it.

But you do have this sense of ownership and there’s the liquid I’m responsible for. Even though I know I work for a major corporation, there are a lot of people looking at Woodford to make sure that it’s okay, but at the end of the day, I’m the person!

I look at Chris Morris, our Master Distiller Emeritus, I mean he was Master Distiller since 2003, so for 20 years he has owned it and was the person to maintain the quality and integrity. Now that’s my job because other people are going to come and go. Managers are going to come and go I’m the constant, so it’s like being the parent or something.

Susan: It’s your baby, I was going to say that really.

Elizabeth: I guess it is. It’s like your baby and you just don’t want people to abuse it or do anything weird. I love it and I got to take care of it.

Susan: Now, just back to your first encounters with alcohol in your business. When you were part of the sensory team, was it for all different spirits? Because Brown Foreman has a lot of different spirits. Was it your first encounter with bourbon?

Elizabeth: I worked on it from formulated products. I had to make Southern Comfort in the lab, make all the base for it and test all the flavors. So, I mean, there was so much that I had to, so I touched everything from tequilas, our whiskeys, our wines, formulated, I mean, everything.

It exposed me to a lot and then learning how to make all of it was really fascinating and then just how everything that goes into it and being on the quality side, I think I developed a really strong passion for understanding what goes into making all the products and a really strong appreciation for that.

That was something that came out in me in this role and the role was being very methodical and wanting things to be standardized so that we could make sure we were testing things correctly. I really leaned into it and found a strong passion for quality in that role.

Susan:  When did you first start working solely with bourbon then? How long had you been at the company?

Elizabeth: It was 2016 when I was moved to work out at Woodford Reserve. I moved out to the distillery, started working in production out there as Quality Control Specialist and that was 2016.

Susan: Seven years. Were you working in all different spheres before that and then just Woodford Reserve, do you feel confident to go into one spirit? Was it the direction you wanted to take? Sorry, now I’m going to ask a thousand questions at once. Had you been drinking bourbon, is this something that you liked, and you thought, I want this to be the next step in my career is going to be bourbon because I love it.

Or was it just happenstance that it was the role came up and you said, Oh, I’m going to take this one.

Elizabeth: It was more happenstance, but it also was me driving it. I mean I was definitely driving that desire to want to interact with the brands and interact with consumers on our products because they were in my role as a sensory scientist. We did a lot of things where we would work with our product developers and do showcase, we call it, we would have the lab open, and we would showcase the different products that they had developed and talk about them.

When we would do that, I realized how much I loved talking about the flavor profile and trying to sell people on it, but it just fed something in my soul. I love that part of talking to people and that ambassadorship. When we would have days where we bring like the kids come into workday and somebody had to present to all the kids and I was like, Oh, I’ll do it.

I love that side of it. I started realizing I had this interest in doing more of the marketing side and I started expressing that. I mentioned that because as part of me moving out to work specifically with Woodford Reserve, I was Master Taster as well. I had started training with Chris Morris to be Master Taster and in that role, it was tasting Woodford Reserve and being intimately connected with that brand from knowing the brand’s story to the liquid development and then starting to peek behind the curtain with Chris Morris, the Master Distiller, and doing those presentations and speaking on behalf of the brand and doing that work.

That’s when I was like, Oh, I really love doing this. I am energized by people, by talking about seeing people’s excitement for Woodford. That all was going on, then the other thing with those seven years of working with all the different products, and I was also working with all of our global production facilities.

I was going out to all of our global production facilities, learning how they work. I was at Jack Daniels, I was at Canadian Mist, I went to Chambord in France. I went all over, and it gave me such a huge appreciation for how things are made and the connections you need when you do projects in production and when you have to ask people to do something that might be outside of their box or outside of their comfort zone.  

Working at Woodford in that smaller role, people see you climb the ladder and know that you are part of their team. I fully understand and appreciate what I ask of my team to do.  I always consider that when we’re doing a Master’s Collection. Those seven years are so valuable to me. I’m so lucky I got to do that.

Susan: Yes, I’m sure. You said that you were Master Taster. What does that involve? Is that something that you learn, or do you just have it and you find that you have it? You know, the tongue. I know when I took the WSET and they’re like, what does this taste like? They’d give me a rum and I would say it tastes like rum. Is it something that you feel like you developed, or you naturally had?

Elizabeth: It’s a combination. It’s something I naturally had and then you nurture it and learn to really, really develop it. That was what happened. Part of my role is the sensory role; we started the quality descriptive analysis panel. I was starting that work away from even doing stuff with Chris Morris.

I was already starting to figure out, okay, how do we measure whiskey in a qualitative way, but in a way that we can all build a consensus around the flavor profile. So, you could look at a whiskey, you could look at a new whiskey and judge the spiciness of that distillate versus one that’s a fully mature whiskey and it’s all on the same scale.  It’s very challenging to do that, but we worked with some sensory groups on that so that really got my palate tuned in.

I still have to do it I mean I still have aroma jars here that I’ll open up and just refresh my brain because you just need that to set your reference point again. Like what does clove smell like again. That was something that I really developed and then as a Master Taster. I got to really figure out how I apply that to the specific role with Woodford Reserve.

Susan: Yes, I saw that you were on the committee to do that, how to properly nose and taste things. How did you come to consensus? Or did you even?

Elizabeth: Well, we would because the way that we do it, we had panellists that we trained, and you create references. So basically, we started with like, here’s a really fruity scotch.  If something’s going to be dry, dark fruit, and this on a scale of 1 to 10, this is a 10, then everything else, how does it compare to that?  You have to have these anchoring references. Then we converted it over to Jack Daniels. Jack is your standard, so maybe on the fruity scale it’s at a 7. Then on the brown sugar scale, it’s a little bit more like a five or and you just work it that way and then smoke, it’s zero and then you have a reference of maybe Ardbeg is your smoke and if it’s going to exist in whiskey, this is what it looks like.

That’s where you have your anchors and that becomes your reference that if you’re going to give something this rating, it has to compare to your reference point and so then that becomes how you standardize. Afterwards we would talk, like if somebody was a major outlier, we would have to maybe talk to them, like, okay, why did you choose that, and they could get kicked out of the panel or something.  They’re an instrument, so you would, with an instrument, you’d kick out your outliers.

Susan: Yes, exactly. Now, coming to Woodford Reserve, what was the first role that you had there?

Elizabeth: I was Senior Quality Control Specialist. I worked in the processing and dumping area, so where we would dump all of our batches. I was up in that part of the distillery.

Susan: What was it like working, your initial thoughts about working with just one brand?

Elizabeth: I loved it. There is so much pride because I had spent a lot of time out at Woodford already and developed really close relationships with everyone there. Then getting to work out there and be boots on the ground and just wear steel toed boots every day! I love that work, and I love when I do get to go out to the distillery and just be with the distillery team and not be Master Distiller but just be myself.

They all don’t think of me that way, because they all knew me before I came in this role. So, it’s just nice to talk about whiskey and what we can do to improve it. There are great people that work at Woodford. It’s like the dream team out there.

Susan: To be only the third Master Distiller ever is quite a thing you know. Tell me a little bit about working with Chris and your progression towards being assistant Master Distiller and then him handing the reins over to you.  I know it’s a lifetime of knowledge but handpick the things that maybe he taught you or that you figured out on your own.

Elizabeth: He taught me almost everything I know. I always joke that he’s my bourbon dad. I mean, he is somebody that’s just extremely special to me and that I can go to him with any issue. There’s a huge level of comfort and trust between him and me and that developed over time because it went from being, this is Chris Morris and putting him up on this pedestal of “Oh my god, he’s this legend,” and I am going to ride around with him and learn from him.

Susan: How cool! 

Elizabeth: Not even knowing what to say and how to act but he and I meshed right away. There was just such a nice level of comfort. I remember my first trip with him going down to Nashville and it was like being on a narrated bus ride or something. Every stop, he’s like, do you know what happened here?

He has historical information and little bits of trivia about everything.  He’s just a fascinating person to be around. He is family at this point. It’s funny because now I can be like, Chris, what are you doing? I mean, it’s the way that I talk to him is like a family member. It’s shifted from being this person that I’m like, Oh, I don’t even know how to talk to you too.

Now we just can totally shoot the breeze. He taught me so much. He really taught me my presentation skills of how to, act at an event, going up and introducing yourself to people and how to present at a dinner, all those sorts of things. Then how to handle tough situations in the distillery or things that are going on with the brand when quality is at stake, and you have to really fight for it.

He’s taught me how to handle those situations. He taught me how to innovate and how to maintain brand integrity and that is something which he’s teaching that to all the teams at this point. I think something that’s really important and he’s been around so long, but understanding your brand’s identity and what your brand stands for and not going all over the place just because it’s what’s cool. Staying true to your values and that’s important as a person in life.

He always would talk about Woodford Reserve like it was a human, like a person in a way. It is really important to make sure that we maintain Woodford and what is. We’re not just going to do some sugary thing with it or make a liqueur or something. It’s important to know what we stand for. That’s been something that’s been huge and it’s what drives all the innovation. We’re going to do things in a natural way using grains that have been toasted instead of using flavors, and we’re going to use different wine barrels and things that are premium to work with this brand to do innovation.  

Then another thing that he taught me that I think is so important, especially because he’s a very humble person. When you’re in a role where it is a big role, I mean, somebody said to me yesterday, they’re like, so you’re famous, aren’t you? I was like, No, that’s a stretch. I can walk anywhere, and nobody knows who I am. That’s not famous. But everything I have gotten to do in my career, the amazing trips, the amazing events I’ve gotten to do, the Derby, it’s all because of Woodford Reserve.

I mean, yes, I do a lot. I’m good at my job. But I wouldn’t be doing these things if it wasn’t for Woodford.  Woodford is why I get to do all these amazing things in my job, and I never lose sight of that, that I’m here to represent Woodford. I’m here to speak on Woodford’s behalf because Woodford can’t speak for itself. That is just something that keeps you humble, and it keeps you grounded in trying to just always remember to put Woodford first when you’re out doing your job. It’s not about me.

Susan:  I’m sure when you’re stepping into a role like this, you also can’t help but think, Ooh, what can I do now? I think that’s just human nature, especially because you have the Master’s Collection, the Distiller’s Collection, all of these things. Other than preserving the liquid, obviously goes without saying. Now that you’ve been in this role almost two years, were there things that you had wanted to do when you were an Assistant Master Distiller, and you got to finally do them? Or you, or you even thought of them when you became the Master Distiller?

Elizabeth: We are doing some, switching some things up. I can’t reveal too much, but I’ve always wanted to play with proof and maybe step outside of doing things just at 90.4 proof. So, I think be looking for that to come from me and it’s not about just doing a high proof just to do a high proof, but to display the whiskey in the way that is the best that I really enjoy.

I just feel like sometimes I open up barrels and I taste them and it’s a higher proof and I’m like, Oh, I can’t bear To cut it all the way down to 90.4. I love my 90.4 Woodford Reserve bourbon. I drink it all the time, but sometimes when something’s really special there’s just a better presentation at a higher proof.

Then even age and really trying to play in that space. That’ll be an interesting thing too, because we’ve never done an age statement. Those are things that I think will be the biggest difference. We just filled some Cabernet barrels, and I love Cabernet red wine, so we’ll do that and see how that does. It’s just fun playing in that space, and I think it’s stuff that Chris will be proud of. He’s proud to see me do it, and it is stuff that he never really did.

Susan: We didn’t really talk about your relationship with bourbon. Did you drink bourbon when you were younger? Is it something that maybe your dad drank, or your mom drank?

Elizabeth: My dad would come home every night and have his one bourbon. I mean, he still is that way. My mom’s a beer drinker, so she puts ice in her beer.  My dad always drank bourbon when he would get home. When I was younger, I didn’t know how to drink it.

I mean, it sounds so weird to say now. I couldn’t fathom the idea of drinking a high proof spirit anything neat or on the rocks. I always had to mix it. I just was like you don’t drink that straight. Gross. It took me a while to appreciate how to drink bourbon. Just enjoy it for what it is.

I do love cocktails. I’m not really embarrassed by it. I find it funny. I mean, when I went out, it was the early 2000’s and people were drinking vodka and vodka soda was huge. So, I would have my vodka soda and lime and go about my business.

Susan: There’s nothing wrong with that.

Elizabeth: That’s what I was drinking when I started at Brown Foreman, that’s when I learned how to drink bourbon and appreciate it. Now, if I’m going to drink, I just pour it over the rocks. I am a bourbon on the rocks girl. I don’t really drink it neat unless I’m tasting something that’s a little special, a little more elevated.

I’m bourbon on the rocks because I just love it, and it tastes so good. When I go out, I don’t know what I am, either red wine or bourbon. That’s it.

Susan: I’m not saying this because I have you on the other side of the microphone, but yes, bourbon is my favorite spirit as well. I was interviewing a brand ambassador once, a brand ambassador for a bourbon, and she said, bourbon is my husband tequila is my lover.  I love that, because those are actually my two favorite spirits. Yes, but I’m an Old Fashioned girl. I like it with a little bit of sugar in it.

Elizabeth: Yes, I love Old fashioneds, and I like when somebody else is making me a cocktail.

Susan: I also read that you said that Chris Morris, was such a historian. The things that you loved were delving into flavor and also sustainability. I was wondering if you’ve gotten to do that in your new role.

Elizabeth: I’ve been really heavily involved with the Kentucky Rye Project and bringing back rye for commercial use to Kentucky because rye doesn’t grow well in Kentucky on any large scale. People do it on a smaller scale, but on a large scale, it’s very challenging. It’s a big sustainability play because, once you harvest corn, you can put the rye, plant it, and cover it as a winter cover crop, it does wonders for your soil.

It stabilizes the topsoil, so you don’t see as much soil runoff into your streams. It cleans up your waterways, then it sequesters carbon from the atmosphere and draws it down into the soil, so it actually fertilizes the soil as well.  It has so many benefits as a cover crop. That’s some one piece of it but then if you can take it and have it go to seed and actually harvest the rye seed and have that and then sell it then it becomes more than just a cover crop. It now has an economic component to it as well.

That’s been a project that I’ve been working on myself with Woodford Reserve and then the University of Kentucky and so there’s several people involved in it.  We’ve got four dedicated farmers to doing all the dirty work of the data research and working with our team to learn when do you plant, when’s the best time to plant and all that.

There’s so many different facets at work but it’s a five-year project and we’ve already completed year one and we’re on year two and we’re about to meet in a couple weeks to gear up for this next harvest and see how things are going. It’s just really fascinating. I’ve learned a lot about farming. It just gives you such a great appreciation for all the work that goes into that

Susan:  Have you been able to use that rye in your rye?

Elizabeth: Yes, we’ve been using Kentucky Grown Rye because this is phase two of the Kentucky Rye project. We’ve been for the past five years, once a year using Kentucky Grown Rye in our Woodford Whiskey. Only a small quantity because there’s not a lot of it, but that’s been really fun to be a part of that project.

Susan:  Did you find that it changed, that the taste was different from before when you were using a different states’ rye?

Elizabeth: Yes, it’s a slightly more floral and fruitier than the standard plump rye, which is a little grassier that we’ve seen. That’s just in the new make distillate, and then it fades out as it gets mature with the barrel influence. You don’t see all those subtle differences, but it’s hard to say. I mean, that was just one year’s crop. We’ll see. We’ve got lots of years to start comparing, and so we’re doing all that flavor research as part of this study.

Susan:  I wonder if the corn will then have a different flavor.

Elizabeth: Well, they haven’t, we haven’t noticed anything with the corn.

Susan: About farming though, so I have no idea.

Elizabeth: We haven’t noticed anything with flavor, but the yield, you see a greater growth rate of your corn, our farmers are seeing that because the soil is healthier.

Susan:  You also, of course, make wheat, malt, rye, and corn bourbon. How have you seen them grow? Have you seen people really respond to them?

Elizabeth: Yes, but they’re so small. Our rye whiskey is a fantastic rye whiskey. I think the flavor is phenomenal on it, but we don’t have the facility capacity to make a ton of it, so it’s always going to be a little smaller.  

Then our wheat and malt, they’re beautiful liquids, but I just think that they’re so limited.

I mean, they’re always out, they’re not something that are one time of year release, but they’re just so small that people don’t really know about them. I think when we get more people tasting them then the interest will grow, but they’re always going to be really small expressions of Woodford.

Susan:  I have a list here of the past Distiller Series expressions. There’s a lot there, tons. Which ones are you still making or you were your favorites that you loved?

Elizabeth: With the Master’s Collection, it’s a one and done, so we don’t repeat them.  But we’re toying with the idea of, do we bring back ones that were extremely popular, that I loved. There’s a few of them that I’m like, they were just so good. I loved our Pinot Noir finish; the Chardonnay finish is one Chris Morris’s favorite. We should bring it back.

Susan: Also, you described one in a different podcast about the heavy toast. I even wrote it down, dessert bourbon.

Elizabeth: Oh, is it the double, double?

Susan: Yes, I think it was that and you, oh my god, that sounded so good. I was like, is there

any left?

Elizabeth: Yes, well, double, double, we actually just released it, nationally in the US. It used to be just something we would only have available in the state of Kentucky.  now it’s available in the USA and Canada. We’re really, really excited that people are getting their hands on that, and I’m pumped about that because it is delicious.

Susan: Yes, I when I get home, I may have my mom order one just to make sure we have one because the way you described it sounded so good.  I love a bourbon, both before dinner and after dinner. So, to have something that you call a dessert bourbon just has to be good, just has to be great.

Now, the distiller series. You spoke about the Master’s Collection, the Distiller Series. How is that different from the Master Collection?

Elizabeth: Yes, so the Distillery Series is one that we only release in the state of Kentucky. It’s only released there and predominantly at our home place. They are small runs that we don’t have the ability to scale up to, like a Master’s Collection level.  They’re really meant to be just a thank you for coming to visit us. Here’s an opportunity to get something unique. You can’t get anywhere else.

Susan: Did you hear that everyone? That is a reason to go visit Kentucky. It’s the stuff that you can’t get anywhere else. I was wondering what changes have you seen since you’ve been there, since you’ve been there for a while?

Elizabeth: A lot, a lot. Well, we’ve doubled capacity at our distillery. We went from three pot stills to now we have six pot stills. We have 16 fermenters. We’ve exploded immensely.  Not only have we grown physically in the amount of equipment we have, but then the time! When I first started going out to Woodford, we bottled twice a week.  Now, we got to a point where we were bottling 24/7 across three shifts and now, we’ve been able to re jig it. We send some of our product to our Louisville campus to be bottled and so that has helped alleviate some of that.

I mean it’s just crazy how we’re five days a week, two shifts bottling constantly. Just a huge team of people. I mean, it used to be such a sleepy place out at Woodford and now it is not so much. We’re always going and going.

Susan: It is incredible. I mean, I do a cocktail tour. When I talk about how things have changed, it’s really in the past, not even 20 years.  The love of bourbon around the world now is just insane. I mean, it’s incredible that people have fallen in love with it again after, the vodka tonic years. It’s really incredible to see, to hear that you just bottled twice a week, even a few years ago.

Elizabeth: I know.

Susan: I never would have thought that, especially such a popular brand as Woodford Reserve.

Elizabeth: Yes. I mean, that was probably around 2010, 2011. It was like that. Now it’s just taken off. I mean, just to see our bottling line, how it has changed. I mean, it went from being something that you bring over a few cases and people would take the bottles out and put them on the line themselves. Now we have like a depalletizer and an uncaser that’s all automated. It’s just crazy to see how much it’s all changed. It’s like Frankenstein, our little bottling line.

Susan: I want to just bring down the bottle for a sec. Because I always think it’s fun for people to look at the bottle. Especially if they’re looking at the video. So, guys, look at the video, on YouTube.  I heard that you have been practicing your signature.

Elizabeth: I did.

Susan: Can you just tell people what they find when they, when they read the label.

Elizabeth: Yes, so we’ve got the batch number on there and the percent ABV, and you’ve got our signatures on there. You’ve got Chris Morris’s signature and, my signature is slowly rolling out to other bottles, and so you’ll see Elizabeth McCall on there.

Susan: So, the next bottle I have will be yours.

Elizabeth: Yes, I know mine is slowly making its way out there. But yeah, when I was practicing my signature for that, I was like, I’ve got to get this right and make sure it looks good. So, I went to I did a bunch of them on white paper and then took my signature to my colleagues that work in the sensory lab.

They’re the most honest people that I worked with. They know me from when I was nobody, so they’ve been with me the whole journey.  They’re good at being very critical and I love that.  I went and I was like, okay, which one do y’all like? They picked and criticized everything.  That was how I picked which one was the best.

Susan: Well, you came full circle because you went back to the sensory lab.

Elizabeth: Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. they’re my people so I always go back to them

Susan:  This has been really, really fabulous. It’s been great talking to you about your

journey to Master Distiller.

Elizabeth: Thank you. This was a fun interview. I appreciate it, because like you said, I’ve done a lot of interviews, and so this one was really enjoyable. Thank you.

Susan: Thank you for spending the time with me.

Elizabeth: Yes, thank you, Susan. This was wonderful.

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