How to Drink Your Grandfather’s Manhattan with Abigail Gullo

It was her grandfather’s Manhattan that inspired our guest to love the art of making cocktails, but what was it about that Manhattan that would lead her to New Orleans? 

Joining us today on our episode sponsored by Louisiana Tourism is the fabulous Abigail Gullo. Creative Director, Loa Bar in the Beaux Arts wonder that is the International House Hotel which won the best Hotel Bar in America in 2019.

She was the First winner of the Heaven Hill Bartender of the Year and a legend in the business.  Originally a New Yorker, she has found her home in the Big Easy. 

Have you ever been to Louisiana? I love it for its Creole and Cajun culture, Mardi Gras, and the beautiful city of New Orleans, but the Pelican State offers so much more, including the amazing live music scene covering everything from Jazz to Swamp pop and Zydeco, a fascinating history combining diverse cultures, over 400 festivals a year and adventures including kayaking on the bayous and lakes, hiking in the many National and State Parks throughout the state or the newly launched Louisiana Civil Rights Trail.  

If you didn’t know already, it’s the home of the cocktail, not only the Sazerac, gumbo, jambalaya, Tabasco hot sauce, King Cake, and beignets!  Louisiana offers a food and drink experience that is second to none.  Meet craft distillers, brewers, and mixologists who are working with local traditions and making a name for themselves on the Louisiana Culinary Trails or Louisiana Libations Trail.

Let the endless beauty of Louisiana feed your soul and inspire you. You can check out more by visiting louisianatravel.com

Our Cocktail of the Week

Please enjoy this transcript of my interview with Abigail. Just remember that I own the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of Lush Life podcast, with all rights reserved, as well as my right of publicity. So if you want to use any of this, please email me!

This transcript is sponsored by:

Susan: I’ve been listening to a few podcasts you’ve been on, and somehow, they always glide over your upbringing and why you even fell in love with your grandfather’s Manhattan and his recipe.

I’d really love to know those stories of why you were drawn to sample his Manhattan or any cocktails. Why you developed this love for it, and then now why you’ve made it into your career? Could we start just a little at the beginning, and I may interrupt you a thousand times with about 10 billion different questions.

Abigail: Yeah, that sounds good.

Susan: Okay, so why don’t we start at the beginning? Even though I know a little bit about this, but I think it would be a good place to, well, it always is obviously a good place to begin. It’s the beginning.

Abigail: My father was a farm boy, raised in western New York and he was an only child. My mother was one of 10 raised in and around New York City. Very different kinds of lifestyles and yet very similar in that my grandparents were all children of the Depression, and they were very thrifty and very prepared.

I was not raised in a household where, what carried on into my parents, we didn’t go out to eat a lot. Fine dining wasn’t something I was ever exposed to. We only went out to eat if Mom or Dad was too tired to cook. And it was usually pizza, Chinese food, or a diner, and the diner was the fancy option.

The diner had the placemats with all the drinks on it that I loved and studied and used to take home. However, my mother’s father, my grandfather, they were Hell’s Kitchen kids. They lived in New York City and my great-grandfather worked at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel as a waiter, sometimes barman.

That’s where he met my great-grandmother who was a maid from Ireland. And this is the old Waldorf where the Empire State Building sits now. This was a grand Beaux Arts building. It had a grand tradition of parties and Oscar Tschirky and the Waldorf Salad and the Manhattan was really the featured cocktail there.

So to my grandfather, I believe, the Manhattan was the height of sophistication. We, like a lot of families, we have some alcoholism in our family, and my grandfather was very aware of that and wanted to treat drinking as something for special occasions, something to be done, not lightly, but sophisticatedly and with purpose.

So eating in our family was a family affair. It was a ritual. It was fresh. It was delicious. Like the fresh garden vegetables that my grandmother would pick and use in her Italian cooking, expose my palette to the benefits of fresh food. I would never have processed food growing up.

Everything was homemade and the ritual of eating together and a large family that I got from the other side, which meant my grandmother was an expert at doing a great mise-en-place and putting everything out on the table, perfectly cooked, perfect temperature, all at the same time.

I noticed these things as a kid because I noticed, when I would go to my friend’s house, the food was terrible. It’s not cooked right. It’s processed. It tastes weird. I knew that from an early age that my family did things differently and I didn’t mind them for that.

You always go through that little bit of resentment that we weren’t allowed to have Captain Crunch and stuff like that, but I…

Susan: Or Shake and Bake.

Abigail: Yeah or Shake and Bake. Yeah. Or Jiffy Pop. No, my mom’s making popcorn on the stove with a big heavy pot and oil.

Susan: I’m that too. My mom only made fresh food. We weren’t from an Italian background, but she always made fresh food. Only sometimes when I went shopping with Dad would he let me get Captain Crunch. Then that was quickly taken away by mom. No, she can’t have this, she has to have the oatmeal. I totally understand that.  Now, your family, you said one side was Italian, the other side was Irish.

Abigail: Irish, French, Canadian, Croatian. Real, real New York mutt mix.

Susan: What kind of food were you having? Were you only having Italian food or were you having all different kinds of food?

Abigail: All different kinds of food. The Irish-Croatian, French-Canadian side was very much meat and potatoes, vegetables, but the Italian side was everything fresh and a lot of Italian cooking at home. And both my mother and my father cooked. It was a real blend between chicken pot pie and Pasta Fagioli.

It was really a little bit of everything, which is great. My mom was an expert bread baker. She made all her own bread. She makes amazing cookies. She’s the great baker and my dad is – well, he’s a good baker, too, but he’s a great short order cook too. He used to make these breakfast sandwiches he called the Big Kahuna that was a perfectly fried egg on a nice soft roll with lettuce and tomato and bacon or ham.

And it was just, you’d just bite into it and it’d be crunchy and juicy all at the same time. Yum! The breakfast sandwiches in my house in the morning were so good. So good. And yeah, we made it fun and I said, it was a time, it was real breaking bread.

It was real being together as a family and it was beautiful ritual that made me feel comfortable and safe. I was very blessed to have such an amazing upbringing with amazing parents and amazing extended family who instilled that in me.

 And then, yes, because I have this history of, once removed, my great-grandparents were amazing hospitality workers working at the golden age of early 20th century hospitality.

I really had this respect for well, when you go out, you’re going to do it right. You have to order this way and you have to get this. And when you go to a certain restaurant, get their specialty. It’s what you do.

So I think that made it really easy for me as an adult and then, moving as a young adult when I was 21-years-old, when I moved to New York City, it was very easy to keep up that lifestyle, to shop every day local at the bodega, at the butcher. I lived in the West Village and so I would go to Vito’s bread, and Murray’s cheese.

I lived right around the corner. I was on Morton Street in the West Village, so I was right around the corner from that part of McDougal that had all the Italian bakeries and everything. Everything was fresh. And then slowly, as I made money or as I made friends who had money, I was introduced to more fine dining and finer cocktails.

Still loved the tradition in those early days of going to hotels, hotel bars, going to the old King Cole Bar and going to find Dale, going to find Audrey at Bemelmans Bar. These were things I sought out because it reminded me, it made me feel closer to my grandparents.

My very first apartment was on 34th Street between 9th and 10th Avenue, which was right next to St. Michael’s Church, which is where my grandparents were married in 1937. I could see, out my window, the Empire State Building, where, when it was a hotel, my grandma used to go there for fancy dances with her older sister.

My grandma’s older sister was a bit of a wild child. In order to keep her grounded, they made her take her little sister, if you go out, you have to take your little sister, Kitty. And it  backfired because my grandmother was so beautiful, but very young. But when they put makeup on her and put her in a long dress and gloves, she passed as older, and that’s when she caught my grandpa’s eye.

Susan: I love that. Now about drinking, okay, you said when you were 21, you moved to New York. I’m assuming here that maybe you tried one of those Manhattans before legal drinking age? We don’t have to discuss that if you don’t.

Abigail: No, I was very much a square and very much a rule follower. The rules worked for me, or I thought they would. I was still naive enough or I was raised that if you follow the rules, the rules will work out for you. And I tasted some before.

My grandpa liked his Manhattans with bourbon and sweet. It was almost a 50/50 with sweet vermouth and bourbon because he wasn’t a heavy drinker. He was a light drinker. He liked to tone down the alcohol by making it a 50/50 Manhattan. To me, it just tasted really herbaceous and sweet.

And I liked the cherries. I would fish the cherries out and eat those. Those early vermouth and bourbon-soaked cherries. I could still taste them, they were the red maraschino ones. But man, I loved them. And I remember when you would get a candied cherry on a dessert, I would eat it and then be like, “Mmm, that doesn’t taste as good as grandpa’s cherries.” Because it wasn’t soaked in bourbon and vermouth.

Susan: Of course. Of course. It’s a grown-up Shirley Temple.

Abigail: Yeah, for sure. Even because I didn’t have any older siblings and my cousins – I remember being on a school trip, and I was ostracized by all the kids. I was very weird. I would do that kind of thing where we went to the UK and I’d put on a fake British accent and walk ten paces in front of them and pretend I didn’t know them.

I was a very weird little girl and thought I was much more sophisticated than I was. Or I was just desperately trying to be a grownup. I remember we were on a bus tour with a lot of retirees. And there was one woman there who had beautiful red hair, and she looked younger than all the other old people, and she didn’t have a husband.

And she said, I’m too young to be on this group with all these old people, and they’re very boring. And I’m like, Yeah, and I’m too old to be on this trip with these young people. They’re childish. So we became buddies on this bus trip across the UK and Ireland. And she snuck me my first Rum and Coke.

She told me that my chaperones would never know that it wasn’t just a Coke. She also snuck me my first Irish coffee, which was very good. Again, she posed it, as you’re here, you’re in Ireland, you should try this drink and not the fake one that doesn’t have the whiskey in it.

She was so lovely and she looked after me and I said, I was a good kid. I never wanted to betray the trust of my elders. I was a little bit of a square and I would take a sip and feel really naughty. But it was wonderful to have this introduction of, again, this is a ritual, this is a special occasion. You could order a Pink Lady.

Susan: Oh, you were so much more sophisticated than I was. I was this – so I went to a college which had its own little town. I was like, “Kahlua. Give me a jug of Kahlua and ask me for my id, please.” I could – with that Kahlua – you were much more sophisticated with the Rob Roys. It took me years to learn what a Rob Roy was.

Abigail: I remember the bartender – all summer long I had been going to this bar with old, much older friends of mine, and the day I turned 21, I asked the bartender to ask for my id, and he got so mad at me. And of course I realized later how terrible that was, that I had deceived this poor bartender into serving someone underage. Oh my God. Oh yeah, I know.

Should we be talking about this? This is – kids do not drink until you’re of age. Well, that, I mean, that’s what I love about New Orleans kids is that they are exposed to alcohol at an early age, and because of that they’re more sophisticated drinkers by the time they turn 21. Like I was, I wasn’t doing beer bongs and getting wasted. I mean, that’s not –

Susan: No, me too. I was always allowed to sip things, too. And I remember going to New Orleans when I was young and my parents ordered wine and they said, we were at a restaurant, and they said, “Oh yes, if you’re with us.” I think at that time if a minor was with yes, their parent, you’re nodding, you can have a drink.

Abigail: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. That was when I took my alcohol responsible test, that was the one question I got wrong on the test because in the video they literally showed a dad pouring wine at the table for a five-year-old, and I’m like that can’t be right. And they’re like, no, that is legal. And I’m like okay…

Susan: How much do we love New Orleans now? I’m only kidding. Yes. Drink responsibly. I always say that. Of course, of course. Now, you were in New York, but you were acting. How did you get waylaid or include drinks into that and then decide that that was going to be your change in what you were going to?

Abigail: I think I was very lucky to live in New York and to realize very early that dive bars are good for dive bar drinks, but hotel bars are good for martinis. I early on recognized that the bartender and the bar matters to how you’re going to drink. And you just have to either adjust or seek out the places that you want to go.

If you want to drink a certain way, go to a certain place. A big change for me happened actually in 2000, I immigrated to Dublin, Ireland for two years in 2001. And when I was there, there was zero cocktail culture. Like nothing. Like I heard a rumor that one hotel bar had a shaker and I tried to order a martini and he had no vermouth and he made it with vodka.

And I’m like whoa, okay. I was, Oh, I think you guys are missing out a little bit. I started holding cocktail salons at my house. I couldn’t even get the good cherries. I had my mother ship me whiskey-soaped good cherries or maraschino cherries.

And I made Manhattans. I made Cosmopolitans. And I think I made gin Martinis, too. And I would have little bites of food. I made little bagel bites and I’d have parties at my apartment where I would introduce people to real cocktails. And I remember the reaction of people going, “This is so good. I’ve never tasted anything like this before. And it’s really good”

That’s when I realized I could make good cocktails. I wasn’t just good at ordering them. Now, I was good at making them as well. And –

Susan: No, wait a sec. Before that, why did you choose Dublin to move to?

Abigail: I was a big Hibernophile, was really into the Irish side of my family. Met my grandfather’s first cousin whose name was Bridget, and she became a third grandmother to me. She was absolutely lovely and she taught me so much, the warmth of hospitality and how important that welcoming feeling is that you get from somebody, because we knocked on her door as strangers and she welcomed us as beyond the family that we were, really. She has such a special place in my heart.

So I always loved Ireland and had an opportunity to, again, follow the rules and do it right. I got a job there, got my alien paperwork, and my plan, I mean I was 27, 28. I really wanted to get married and have children, and I was just having zero luck in New York City. I thought I’d meet a nice Irish man and then never move back.

And I loved Irish theater, too. I love the Royal Academy of Arts in the UK. I loved just being able to hop over to London to see something on the West End. I love that UK style of acting. That was very much outside-in. I loved classics, look at me the way I was in New York, I was not getting cast in any Chekhov or Shakespeare. It was just very, very difficult for me to find the kind of work I wanted to do.

I thought maybe I’d have a shot in Ireland. I actually moved over and I was teaching. I was training and hiring teachers for a Gymboree, playing music because I’d gotten very much into the performance element of teaching. And I loved working with young children.

Like I said, I really wanted to be a mom, so I loved being around babies all the time. But I also got a side job because, once I got my alien paper ship, I was able to pick up work and I became the box office manager at The Gate Theatre in Dublin. And I started having interviews at The Abbey and trying to get auditions and was really just enjoying being an expat.

My Irish accent is great for Americans. It’s not great if you’re Irish. You’ll see right through it. Actually, when I came back to New York, I specialized in Irish roles.

Susan: Ah.

Abigail: I did all the Brian Friel plays.

Susan: Right, you had to wait until they needed an American, an American character in one of the plays.

Abigail: Oh gosh. Let me tell you, those performers in the UK and Ireland are so good. They could do spot on American actor accents. It was rough competition. but yeah.

Susan: But you were making cocktails!

Abigail: Making cocktails and loving it and, if I was going to stay, an option was, well, you could always get a job in a pub, but I didn’t want to do that kind of bartending.

I came back to the States. I got a little homesick. I really missed baseball. I don’t know, it’s a funny thing to miss, but I love baseball and I was just , there’s no baseball here. So I came back to the States, moved back to New York, and took up my teaching career again, but definitely started thinking about picking up shifts in a bar and doing more bar work.

Susan: Did you see over those two years that you were gone, that things had changed in New York in the cocktail scene?

Abigail: Yeah, absolutely. I started to see a change. Definitely, people are going to start ordering cocktails when the prices started to go up. And I remember the first time I had a $10 martini, I was like, What?

Susan: What’s going?

Abigail: What’s going on here? $10 for a martini. That’s a lot. I knew something was happening and, and, when I started to see, I think it was, what is it?

Milk and Honey opened in 1999 and Pegu Club was a big favorite mine, Flat Iron Lounge, when those places hit. But again, it still seemed there was already people who were working really hard doing it, and I was just enjoying being on the other side of the bar for a long time.

It wasn’t until, I started, I had these wonderful friends of mine from college who did very well. I call him my Cocktail Daddy because he liked to go out and explore all these places. and he wanted someone to come with him and, I couldn’t really afford it on a teacher’s salary, but he’s like, “I got your drinks.”

He said , If you tell me the cool places to go, I’ll get your drinks. I know, he was the best. My cocktail daddy, Kent Pierce, shout out to him. He and his wife really helped support me early in my career. They also had a wonderful taste for fine dining and they introduced me to fine dining restaurant in New York City.

That’s when I noticed a place for me because I knew great cocktail bars and I knew great cocktails. I started going to these restaurants and I would order a Manhattan to start the meal. And even though we would spend so much money on wine and all this food that Manhattan would come and it was terrible.

It was made with bourbon, it was shaken, it didn’t have bitters. And I said, Oh, and they’re using the wrong cherries. I was like, there’s a hole in this industry where I could fill in restaurants, need to have better cocktails. I saw the food scene getting better and I saw their drinks not getting better with the food.

And I said, I could help you with that because I know good cocktails and I now know good food thanks to my friends Kent and Sandy.

Susan: Now, do you remember where you  pitched that to begin with?

Abigail: What restaurant?

Susan: Yeah. The first restaurant.

Abigail: Where they had good drinks and.

Susan: No, no, no. Where you said, I can help you here.

Abigail: Oh, I didn’t pitch, I didn’t necessarily pitch them, because I don’t want to point, I don’t want to name ok Craft, the Tom Colicchio restaurant. They had great food, I could have gotten a bad bartender. You never know. It still happens to this day.

I think it’s still a challenge. People spend so much time on the food and the drinks often become an afterthought. you spend so much money for a sommelier, and how much money do you spend on your bar manager who also has to pick up shifts and work for tips to get by?

Susan: It’s funny you say that because I feel that, living in London, of course, the cocktail capital of the world, definitely things in the last five years have completely changed. You go to a restaurant, there’s a bar menu, sometimes there’s even pairings, cocktail pairings with the food.

Abigail: Oh, when I first started, and I would suggest that I would get laughed out of the room. You can’t, it’s cocktails are too strong to pair with food. You can’t do that. It has to be wine. They told me absolutely no.

Susan: So when you thought, Okay, there’s a gap here, I want to fill it. How? It can be scary. You’re here, you are doing your job. how did you think you were going to jump right into that?

Abigail: Well, there was a fair amount of paying my dues for years. For years, it was picking up shifts in a beer bar on the Upper East side and wearing a dirndl and pouring two-liter boot beers. It was working in a craft cocktail bar where I would work the slowest shifts and I remember complaining to my bar manager. All I’m learning how to do is how to set up a bar and then how to clean up a bar. And he’s like, Well, at least you’re learning that. He was very right. I was mad about it at the time, but he was right.  I was learning the basics of it all. I worked in really nice craft cocktail bars.

I worked in high volume, little cafes, craft cocktail bars. I worked at a new cocktail bar, I started to develop and learn from these people who had been doing it for almost a decade. I was, I was working with people who worked with Sasha Petraske. I was working with people who worked with Dale DeGroff.

I was working with people who worked with Audrey Saunders, and so I learned those techniques and I took what worked best for me and then learned that you going to adjust that to every bar that you work. I worked at a whole bunch. I would cobble together, sometimes three, four shifts a week at three different places.

Working brunch at one place, then go working dinner at another place. it was a lot of paying my dues and just learning. Then when I got to a point where I felt I was ready to take over, and be in a leadership position, New York at the time was very much young male driven.

And in my visits to New Orleans for Tales of the Cocktails, I saw a lot more women in leadership positions down here. Plus I really loved the food scene here. And I loved that the cocktails and the food always was a thing. Like I said, I was still trying to pitch fine dining restaurants to have better cocktails and do pairings, and I was told no way.

Meanwhile in New Orleans, I was seeing it happen and seeing it working, that it was part of the dining experience. When a job opportunity came up in New Orleans, I called in all my favors. I asked Dale DeGroff to write me a letter of recommendation. I asked my boss St. John Frizell to write me a letter of recommendation to get this job.

It took a year of interviews to get it, but I finally got to come down here and my first time in a leadership bar position. Talk about paying my dues. I moved here in 2012 and I really started bartending in 2007.

Susan: Oh boy. A good five years. Did you always know, even when you were cleaning up and setting up, this is it. This is what I want.

Abigail: No way. I took temp jobs, this is after the economic collapse in 2008. I mean, there was just no work anywhere. I was doing temp jobs at Tiffany’s. I was doing administrative assistant work. I just wanted something that paid a decent salary and that allowed me to not have to live off my credit cards every month.

It was a very hard time, I think back on those five years, and I can’t even remember what I did during those times because it was just so traumatic to work so hard and to not have any idea what you’re doing or where you’re going or if it’s going to lead to anything.

The cocktail industry was still so new, I had no idea if there was going to be a future in that kind of work. And I was a solid 10 to 15 years older than other people in the industry. I didn’t know if I had the endurance.

Susan: Yeah. And as you said, a woman too.

Abigail: And an overweight woman, middle-aged woman in New York City trying to be a bartender. I remember my legs, how much pain I was in from standing up behind a bar all day. I developed planter fasciitis, which is extremely painful. And one of the things that helped was riding my bike. I lived in Washington Heights and I worked in a bar in Red Hook Brooklyn, and that’s a distance of about 13 miles. And I would ride my bike each way to work.

Susan: How long did that take?

Abigail: It took me an hour and a half because I’m not a fast biker. I bike very carefully and slowly and you have to go over a bridge. And it was late at night coming home I couldn’t go on the bike path because it wasn’t lit.

I tried to go on the bike path one night thinking it was lit and there was this part that wasn’t. And I almost, rode my bike into the Hudson River because I couldn’t see anything.

Susan: I’m so glad we can laugh about it now.

Abigail: I know, I know at the time I was like what am I doing?

Susan: Was there a moment in those five years where you thought, Yes, yes, yes. Even a tiny glimpse.

Abigail: Probably, my time at Fort Defiance. Oh, I know what it was. It was that blizzard. It was a giant blizzard in New York and so of course I couldn’t ride my bike to work. I took the train, which also took about an hour and a half. I remember Washington Heights looked okay.

People had shoveled. I get on the A train, I get to J Street, Borough Hall in Brooklyn, and they’re like that’s it. Last stop on the train. Come on up. I’m like, All right. I guess usually I ride the F and then walk to work, but I guess I’ll get the bus. I come up and it’s Snowmageddon. There are cars abandoned in the middle of the street, Brooklyn has been forgotten.

I end up hiking in snow drifts sometimes that came up to my thighs, all the way to Red Hook. No cars would take me. They’re like, no, Red Hook is the worst. It’s the worst. And I remember, I burst through the doors of Fort Defiance and my boss was there and he looks at me, he’s like, What are you doing here?

And I’m like, I came here to work my shift. And he’s like, we didn’t even get a delivery of any food. I don’t know if we’re going to be open. There’s a Saint’s playoff game tonight. Yes, we are going to be open. You go get a TV. I’m here. I’m probably spending the night in this place because there’s no waiting for me to get home.

We are opening this bar and he’s , Yes ma’am. Yes, we are. And the neighborhood came out, we watched the Saints win a playoff game. I’m in my snow boots, running around, serving everyone, my regulars. Everyone’s like, Abigail. Where are you going to sleep? I’m just going to sleep here.

Like in the back of the restaurant. And they’re like, No, no, no. Come to my house. I have a couch. And then another one’s , No, no, come to my house. I have a spare room. And then another one’s, Come to my house, I have a spare room and a toothbrush for you. And I’m sold. And these are just my regular customers.

We were a family and we were so close and I felt I was at home and I told you I had such a wonderful upbringing and I was not able to duplicate that in my personal life. but I was able to duplicate that in my professional life in that moment. And it made me feel , yes, this is where I belong. This is my place. These are my people.

Susan: I love that. I love that story. Have you felt that continuously since you’ve moved to New Orleans? Did you feel, again, when was it the moment you started working there. Did you feel, Yes, this is it. It’s called me in, New Orleans has invited me in and I am now part of it.

Abigail: I felt that way even before I moved here. New Orleans has always been a special place where I felt very welcomed and supported. Someone told me early when I moved here, and it’s so true. It’s become my motto, “To live in New York City, you have to be successful. To live in Los Angeles, you have to be good looking. but to live in New Orleans, you just have to be yourself, .

I am more myself here than I am anywhere else. and I take that with me now wherever I go. New Orleans allowed me to be my true self and not only feel comfortable with that, but feel celebrated and feel supported in being able to be myself. I am forever thankful.

Susan: And was that from the first minute you started to work.

Abigail: It was. It was the community here and how we all look after each other and it’s the wonderful guests I have. And I said, how my regulars, even if they don’t live here, become semi regulars, become friends and then, they become my family. That has happened here more than any other place, for sure.

Susan: That’s fabulous. Now, when you said it took about a year to get this job, this first job in New Orleans. What was the job and what did you have to do in this lead role?

Abigail: I opened up SoBou in the French Quarter, which was the historic, very famous Brennan family in New Orleans, the side that runs Commander’s Palace. This was their first restaurant back in the quarter that they wanted to do, and they wanted to do a drinks focused, cocktail focused, bistro.

I was very excited to be a part of that. Working with Miss Ella Brennan is definitely one of the highlights of my life. She’s an absolute titan of hospitality and I feel so lucky to have worked with her and Miss Lolly and Miss T. They were just such a wonderful entryway to New Orleans culture, old school, New Orleans culture and hospitality culture.

I was really, really grateful to get that kind of perspective and that point of view.  This was my bar I mean, this was my first cocktails program and running this bar and training staff. And I going to admit, I wasn’t great at it. I had a lot to learn and I had a lot to do.

And the thing about running a bar in the French Quarter in New Orleans is you will learn those things very quickly because the number of hours I put in, 50 to 70 hours a week,  behind that bar, suddenly that’s when I really became a good bartender. I was good at making drinks before I became a really good bartender working at SoBou in the French Quarter.

Susan: And what do you mean by that that? specifically?

Abigail: It is just the sheer number of hours in hard work and the amount of different  people that you have to deal. Because we also were in a very corporate hotel environment, so that mixed with this very old school New Orleans from the Commander’s Palace family mixed with bachelorette parties coming in, mixed with want to be mixologists, who are training under me or sometimes undermining me.

I had all sorts, everything to deal with and I didn’t always handle everything the best, but I certainly learned and I learned from my mistakes and I learned a lot very quickly. Not only did I become such a good bartender, but I became a much better actor, my ability to pivot and improv.

I was like why didn’t I do this for my entire acting career? I would’ve been such a better actor. I just was always so, perfection focused on my craft as an actor. And that really held me back. Being able to finally make mistakes, is what really finally made me a better, much better bartender, and a better actor as well.

Susan: Yeah. and I guess you learn as a former actress myself, know your audience, and if you’re being thrown, 10 different kinds of audiences all in the matter of 15 minutes, that is difficult. It’s not easy to do that.

Abigail: That is so true. That is absolutely very true. That was really overwhelming and I definitely got that Malcolm Gladwell perspective of Oh yeah, do something for 10,000 hours and you get really good at it. That was hard and it gave me that great experience.

It’s difficult in this industry. I don’t know, there’s not a lot of people who said, I’ve had the same job for 7, 8, 9, 10 years. I think it’s very much in our nature that, and especially when you work for tips, there’s only so much money you could make, right?

Because you get to a certain point when you have to start shifting to more management work, and then you make less money. I started to notice a pattern that every year I was making less money because, well, first of all, physically I couldn’t work as hard as I did the year before. Second of all, I was really starting to get some amazing staff and bartenders, and I wanted to keep them and keep them happy, which meant giving them good shifts and maybe taking myself out of better shifts because I wanted to keep my staff happy.

That’s always a challenge here in New Orleans because the minimum wage, at that time was still, I mean it still is, it’s very, very low. Covid has changed a lot, but it was so low that you would lose staff if you couldn’t give them the best shifts and if it wasn’t the hot, hottest restaurant where you could, where you can guarantee that they’d make money.

Because you’re working on commission, so if you’re a salesperson working on commission and you get offered a better product to sell, you’re going to jump at it. I think that’s  eventually what happened to me. I just wanted to see what life was on the other side of Canal Street and get out of the French Quarter for a while.

And that opportunity came when Ricky Gomez, Larry Miller and Nina Compton were opening up Compère Lapin. Like when I left a very busy, homey cafe to run a fancier cocktail bar in New York. I worked at both places at the same time because I just wanted to learn different skills.

Here in New Orleans. The neighborhoods are very different and they have different style restaurants and different style bars, and I wanted to keep learning and learn something new. I saw this wonderful opportunity to work with Nina and, boy she’s awesome. Since I moved to New Orleans, I’ve had these amazing, strong, powerful, determined, hardworking women who have I’ve gotten, I’ve been blessed, to work with who just set such wonderful, strong examples. The work ethic of the women I’ve worked with here is just amazing. It’s been really, really great. yeah. Compère Lapin and had a lot more freedom.

The bar was so much bigger. I could order whatever I want. Ricky set up this amazing program with this determination that the drinks were just as important as the food. And Nina Compton, who wins a James Beard award, that food is going to be pretty great. The pressure was on us to really create an exquisite bar program that not only had really elevated drinks, but also maintained this amazing New Orleans hospitality and in a hotel setting, which is a great mix.

One of the things I loved about Compère Lapin, was that there was a great local following as well. We had great New Orleans locals. We had the semi regulars who lived there part-time, and then we had tourists coming in. I loved the kind of people that we got there because it was a really big variety.

Susan: Were you able to work with the chefs and the cooks there to use their produce? Was it a full-on, I guess cooperative, menu making experience where you get together? Or did you do your own thing and then present it to them? How was it working in that kind of restaurant?

Abigail: Well, Nina is the leader. She’s a very strong, passionate leader. We did work together with our produce. I remember she had this amazing dish where she was using a lot of corn and I was seeing all these juicy corn husks that had just had all their kernels removed. And I’m like, Can I use those?

And she’s like, Yeah, I’m throwing them out. I put them, stacked them in a big cambro. I always had access to her kitchen equipment. We provided juice for the kitchen. We would do our juicing for the bar, but she went through a lot of juice too. It really was a symbiotic relationship there.

But I  poured a lot of bourbon over the corn. I’m thinking bourbon, corn, corn cobs. I just packed it and then I put it in one of our storage, bar chillers, and I forgot about it for a couple months. When I pulled it out, the corn cobs had basically filtered the bourbon. The bourbon was now golden yellow, and it tasted of sweet corn, and it was the most beautiful thing I’d ever tasted.

Danny Meyer happened to come into the restaurant that night. I was like, I want to pour you something I’ve been working on. Like I just infused a whole bunch of bourbon with corn and it came out really good.  He took a sip at me, he looked at me and he said, Abigail, you just invented American Limoncello. I’ve been calling it Corncello.

Susan: I was going to say corn, Corncello!

Abigail: Corncello, corncello, corncello! And that came from just a desire of wanting to use every bit of the animal as it were and to work closely with the kitchen and to find drinks that would pair well with the food that was on the menu. So yeah, it was very symbiotic and I always ran cocktails by her and dishes always, whenever a new dish came out, I, think about what we’d pair with it and how we would serve it,

Susan: Mm-hmm. You went from a bar to now your bar restaurant to now a hotel.

Abigail: Now a hotel bar. Yeah. I’m a little bit in uncharted territory again. Right. Because we don’t have a restaurant here, so now it’s just on me. It’s all drinks. And now, I guess I’m the boss lady. Oh my gosh. Here we go!

Susan: You heard it here on Lush life. Woohoo!

Abigail: I’m very, very excited to, first of all, this particular hotel bar has such a wonderful history. This is the first boutique hotel in New Orleans. It’s New Orleans owned. This was the first craft cocktail bar in New Orleans, 1998. That predates Cure by nearly a decade. I mean, this was always a bar that did really interesting, unique things.

It’s funny, I’m reminiscing to that wonderful job at Fort Defiance in Brooklyn because there was a period when we kept running out of glassware and in desperation because I needed glassware to put cocktails in, I stopped at my local thrift store and just bought a whole bunch of mismatched glassware, and that became the thing at Fort Defiance.

 Well, that’s always been the thing here too. At Loa, we have all this beautiful  vintage glassware that we put drinks in.

I immediately felt at home. I also felt at home because I’ve always been inspired by all the things that influence New Orleans. And that doesn’t always just mean the French and the Italian, but specifically the Sicilian. More Sicilian immigrants came through the port of New Orleans than Ellis Island. The Haitian influence, the Caribbean influence, the influence from Western Africa. the influence of Vietnam and the Philippines is very, very felt strongly in our culture here and always people don’t always realize that. Being able to tell that story with the drinks and give that taste of place to me is very important, especially in a hotel bar.

But I said, I really hope that we are a neighborhood and a local bar too, and a sanctuary from the quarter. We’re quarter adjacent, we’re in the CBD, but we’re two blocks from the French Quarter. And I love being able to be “Hey, when you need a change from that we have your back downtown.”

Susan:  Just saying that all those of those countries that you mentioned that people are from, how do you even attack a bar menu that, your first bar menu there? It’s, I’m sure, tough.

Abigail: One of the good things I have in my repertoire is, and I think this comes from New York, and this comes from my grandfather, is a real love of the classics. And building off of classics to me has always been one of my signature styles. Currently we have, I love a martini and when I was 21 and I was poor, I love a Dirty Martini because those olives would keep me alive, extra olives.

I’m serving my version of a Dirty Martini that uses a Celtic style gin, that has the notes of the seacoast there. It has a Spanish sherry in the place of vermouth, so again, the manzanilla from Sanlucar de Barrameda; it’s very rich and savory, and bright.

Then I made, instead of bitters, I made a vinaigrette of Sicilian Extra Virgin olive oil and Vietnamese fish sauce that creates this mouth feel and this texture. It make the Dirty Martini clean and bright, so perfect for our New Orleans summers.

I serve it with a twist, but then in an oyster shell, some Sicilian olives on the side for a snack, in case you’re hungry. I always am, so, again, it’s a classic martini, but very much with a twist. Very much tells the story. It’s named the Sanctity of the Gods because it’s an offering to all the gods that people brought here.

The Celtic gods that were brought here from the Irish when they came, the tradition of the Moors from southern Spain that came here, and the Vietnamese Red River gods of the delta.

Their delta, our delta. those gods exist here because the people who worship those Gods exist here. I wanted to honor all of those gods in this cocktail, an offering. It’s a good cocktail has to tell a good story. And this is a very classic cocktail that tells the story of New Orleans with the ingredients.

Susan: I love that and it seems that’s a perfect way to end, talking about one of your cocktails and seeing you there. I feel I want to get on an airplane right now to try that drink.

Abigail: It’s very tasty. I am a big fan.

Susan: , I always say when people, Oh, New Orleans, I say, It’s one of the great cities of the world, not of the US.

Abigail: That’s absolutely true. Absolutely true.

Susan: I love Venice too. Venice is something that you can only get there. there’s, there’s nothing it. And I feel the same way about New Orleans. It’s just, it’s one of those really, really fabulous cities. Even if you’re a drinker and not a drinker. If you’re a drinker, It’s even better because it’s a grown-up city that has amazing, bar industry professionals.

Abigail: Yeah. It’s really, to me, one of the best hospitality cities in the world. That was evident how important it is to our economy. I believe during Covid, the unemployment rate here was something 95%. You shut down the restaurants and bars and that’s our livelihood here.

It’s really important to me, and that’s one of the reasons why I was excited to move back, for Covid, because I want to be a part of that change and a part of that. Like, Hey, this is important and we should treat it with the importance that it deserves and take care of the people who do this unique experience for us and make this one of the world’s best cities.

And we are , you said, Venice. What Venice had was that it was powerful in trading, in its powerful, in its location, and New Orleans is the same. The amount of people who brought their spirit here and imbued that in and made New Orleans. What it is, is so, so very important and we need to recognize that every day.

But I really hope that when people come to Loa, they feel I’m bringing New Orleans to the world.

Susan: You heard it here. One sip of her cocktail. You have New Orleans in the glass. Now we always end by asking two questions. I would love to know your top tip for the home bartender, or should I say top tips, because it can be more than one if you have.

Abigail: I think it’s really important to have fresh ice. I know that that seems a little silly, but if you’ve ever tasted, put ice in water and you get a weird taste, that your ice is a little old. I think having fresh ice is important. so keep that in mind.

Susan: Okay. I have a question about that because a lot of people that I ask this question, say fresh ice. What do you consider fresh ice? Just one that you’ve made today.

Abigail: Within a week and from the tap or within a week. Yeah.

Susan: We’re going to get into specifics here.

Abigail: Yeah, you don’t have to go crazy. I mean, because this is just a really small element of your drink, but it can make, it’s an easy thing to do to make a big difference. Another easy thing you could do to make a big difference is use fresh fruit.

I mean, don’t buy juices. Don’t buy mixes. You can make it yourself. Fresh fruit, fresh syrups, again, don’t go crazy. You don’t have to make the craziest syrup, but you don’t need to buy a simple syrup. You can make that and that little step makes a big difference.

Same with your booze collection. You don’t have to go crazy and get everything but branch out and try different things. Get that weird liqueur, taste it, see what you could mix it with. and for heaven’s sake, drink more vermouth. And don’t be afraid to drink it on the rocks with a twist.

When you get home from work, you buy a bottle of vermouth to make a martini because you have a craving for it. But finish that vermouth within a week.

Susan: Yeah, absolutely. I think people forget that you can ask your bartender to try some stuff. If you see something on the menu and you say, I’ve never heard of that liqueur really, If they’re not too insanely busy, you say, Can I try just a teeny bit of it by itself? And usually they want to help you, educate you, teach you about all different new things.

Abigail: Yeah.

Susan: Definitely ask.

Abigail: Absolutely.

Susan: If you don’t want to commit to a whole bottle first.

Abigail: Mm-hmm.

Susan: Now, last but not least, if you could be anywhere drinking anything right now, where would it be?

Abigail: Mm. Well, you got me thinking about Venice, which I’ve never been to, but I feel I should talk about someplace I’ve actually been. I do love this little cafe in Rome called Barnum Cafe. It’s near the Campo dei Fiori and I actually booked our hotel to be near the Jerry Thomas Project because, of course, I assumed I was going to go there.

I never made it because the first night I stumbled into this cafe, met an amazing bartender who made amazing drinks, and the next day he was like, You’re back. And I’m like , Why would I go anywhere else? I love this. I love you. This is great. The food is amazing. By night three, I was behind the bar teaching them how to make a Ramos Gin Fizz.

It was so much fun. They instantly became family. I guess I would be at that bar with those lovely bartenders that I met while I was there, eating some delicious pasta and sipping on a cocktail.

Susan: I hear a theme here, which is family, and, yes, we do want to go to the places where we feel family.

Abigail: Yeah. Yeah. Very true.

Susan: I thank you so much for being here.

Abigail: Oh, it was an honor. Thank you so much. That was beautiful. Very thoughtful. And I’m going to go call my mom and dad now and tell them how much I love them.

Susan: Yes, yes, do, so I will leave you and thank you again.

Abigail: You so much, my dear. Cheers.

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